danube delta, romania

lou bertalan
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danube delta, romania

Post by lou bertalan » Tue May 25, 2010 11:15 am

hello all,

just back from an excursion to romania which led us among other places to the caspian colony at murighiol saltlake and then to the mouth of danube, sfantu gheorghe, in the danube delta. unfortunately i didn't have time to take many good quality pics. there are however (as always) some slightly odd birds in the set. at murighiol, caspian gulls seemed to have a good breeding year with 250-300 bp in the colony which has extended and quite some pairs bred isolated. many chicks hatched. starting with 2 pics from murighiol (sorry for the really bad quality!). see notes below the pics.

lou
5 2010.05.07 murighiol lb 4948 - Kopie.JPG
adult looking bird with solid p10 subterminal marks and short underwing p10 tonges.
5 2010.05.07 murighiol lb 4948 - Kopie.JPG (103.75KiB)Viewed 11198 times
5 2010.05.07 murighiol lb 4952 grf.JPG
black spot on primary covert
5 2010.05.07 murighiol lb 4952 grf.JPG (46.02KiB)Viewed 11198 times
Last edited by lou bertalan on Mon Jul 05, 2010 8:46 pm, edited 6 times in total.

lou bertalan
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from sfantu gheorghe, mouth of danube

Post by lou bertalan » Tue May 25, 2010 11:45 am

and continuing with pics from sfantu gheorghe, danube delta.

some adult birds had not started primary moult yet, ...
5 2010.05.07 sfantu gheorghe lb 4954 grf.JPG
full set of old primaries
5 2010.05.07 sfantu gheorghe lb 4954 grf.JPG (111.8KiB)Viewed 11197 times
5 2010.05.07 sfantu gheorghe lb 4960 grf.JPG
5 2010.05.07 sfantu gheorghe lb 4960 grf.JPG (77.1KiB)Viewed 11197 times

...others had p1 or p1 and p2 shed.
5 2010.05.09 sfantu gheorghe lb 5017 grf.JPG
5 2010.05.09 sfantu gheorghe lb 5017 grf.JPG (46.05KiB)Viewed 11197 times
5 2010.05.09 sfantu gheorghe lb 5019 grf.JPG
5 2010.05.09 sfantu gheorghe lb 5019 grf.JPG (58.66KiB)Viewed 11197 times
next 4 pics show another example of an adult caspian with incomplete p5 mark (remember: viewtopic.php?f=24&t=264 and theo's bird lacking a p5 mark download/file.php?id=214; wolfgang's bird: http://web.utanet.at/schwei76/T00150a.jpg)
and additionally this bird is assymetric: left p5 mark is complete but very thin, on right p5 there's only a very small black dot (like often seen on p4 in adult caspians).
5 2010.05.08 sfantu gheorghe lb 4971  grf.JPG
5 2010.05.08 sfantu gheorghe lb 4971 grf.JPG (84.91KiB)Viewed 11197 times
5 2010.05.08 sfantu gheorghe lb 4972 grf.JPG
5 2010.05.08 sfantu gheorghe lb 4972 grf.JPG (97.05KiB)Viewed 11197 times
5 2010.05.08 sfantu gheorghe lb 4973 grf.JPG
5 2010.05.08 sfantu gheorghe lb 4973 grf.JPG (87.69KiB)Viewed 11197 times
5 2010.05.08 sfantu gheorghe lb 4975 grf.JPG
5 2010.05.08 sfantu gheorghe lb 4975 grf.JPG (94.76KiB)Viewed 11197 times
cheers for the moment,

lou

lou bertalan
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more adults

Post by lou bertalan » Wed May 26, 2010 7:55 pm

some more adults
Attachments
5 2010.05.09 sfantu gheorghe lb 5026 - Kopie.JPG
5 2010.05.09 sfantu gheorghe lb 5026 - Kopie.JPG (72.81KiB)Viewed 11173 times
5 2010.05.09 sfantu gheorghe lb 5025 - Kopie.JPG
5 2010.05.09 sfantu gheorghe lb 5025 - Kopie.JPG (49.56KiB)Viewed 11173 times
5 2010.05.09 sfantu gheorghe lb 5022 - Kopie.JPG
black subterminal to p10
5 2010.05.09 sfantu gheorghe lb 5022 - Kopie.JPG (58.02KiB)Viewed 11173 times
5 2010.05.09 sfantu gheorghe lb 5021 - Kopie.JPG
5 2010.05.09 sfantu gheorghe lb 5021 - Kopie.JPG (59.51KiB)Viewed 11173 times
5 2010.05.09 sfantu gheorghe lb 5020 - Kopie.JPG
same as 5019, second post
5 2010.05.09 sfantu gheorghe lb 5020 - Kopie.JPG (63.06KiB)Viewed 11173 times
5 2010.05.09 sfantu gheorghe lb 5018 - Kopie.JPG
5 2010.05.09 sfantu gheorghe lb 5018 - Kopie.JPG (65.94KiB)Viewed 11173 times
5 2010.05.09 sfantu gheorghe lb 5015 - Kopie.JPG
5 2010.05.09 sfantu gheorghe lb 5015 - Kopie.JPG (63.05KiB)Viewed 11173 times
5 2010.05.08 sfantu gheorghe lb 4980 - Kopie.JPG
5 2010.05.08 sfantu gheorghe lb 4980 - Kopie.JPG (146.07KiB)Viewed 11173 times

lou bertalan
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2cy and 3cy

Post by lou bertalan » Wed May 26, 2010 8:52 pm

these types where the rarest present (2cy = 2 ind. photogr. ; 3cy = 4 ind. photogr.)
do some 2cy spend their 1st summer on wintering grounds?
sorry for the really bad quality (2cy), some are distant shots from a fast moving motorboat.
5 2010.05.09 sfantu gheorghe lb 5013.JPG
2cy; p1-3 missing
5 2010.05.09 sfantu gheorghe lb 5013.JPG (60.54KiB)Viewed 11171 times
5 2010.05.09 sfantu gheorghe lb 5014.JPG
same ind.; strongly bleached midwing
5 2010.05.09 sfantu gheorghe lb 5014.JPG (63.65KiB)Viewed 11171 times
5 2010.05.09 sfantu gheorghe lb 5055 - Kopie.JPG
probably a michahellis (2cy), a rare sight inside the danube delta, on a main branch of danube. left wing p1-4 missing, outer 2 secondaries renewed, most MC missing
5 2010.05.09 sfantu gheorghe lb 5055 - Kopie.JPG (72.46KiB)Viewed 11171 times
5 2010.05.09 sfantu gheorghe lb 5056 - Kopie.JPG
same 2cy
5 2010.05.09 sfantu gheorghe lb 5056 - Kopie.JPG (67.81KiB)Viewed 11171 times
5 2010.05.09 sfantu gheorghe lb 5057 - Kopie.JPG
same 2cy
5 2010.05.09 sfantu gheorghe lb 5057 - Kopie.JPG (64.61KiB)Viewed 11171 times
5 2010.05.08 sfantu gheorghe lb 4984 - Kopie.JPG
3cy; red orbital, much black in alternate yellow bill, typical contrasting rows of dark dots on whitish underside
5 2010.05.08 sfantu gheorghe lb 4984 - Kopie.JPG (109.12KiB)Viewed 11171 times
5 2010.05.08 sfantu gheorghe lb 4985 - Kopie.JPG
same individual, p10 mirror extends on outer web, p1-2 shed
5 2010.05.08 sfantu gheorghe lb 4985 - Kopie.JPG (84.42KiB)Viewed 11171 times
5 2010.05.09 sfantu gheorghe lb 5008 - Kopie.JPG
an example of a 3cy alternate cachinnans with almost adult like bill! just a tiny dark immaturity spot.
usually michahellis is more prone to show an adult bill in may-june 3cy
5 2010.05.09 sfantu gheorghe lb 5008 - Kopie.JPG (65.47KiB)Viewed 11171 times
5 2010.05.09 sfantu gheorghe lb 5009 - Kopie.JPG
same ind.; p10 mirror extended on outer web, only p1 shed
5 2010.05.09 sfantu gheorghe lb 5009 - Kopie.JPG (86.81KiB)Viewed 11171 times
5 2010.05.09 sfantu gheorghe lb 5031 - Kopie.JPG
record shot of a 3cy male with strong black bill mark, totally white axilliaries, apparently no p10 mirror, some renewed inner greater coverts, p1+2 shed
5 2010.05.09 sfantu gheorghe lb 5031 - Kopie.JPG (85.84KiB)Viewed 11171 times
5 2010.05.09 sfantu gheorghe lb 5060 - Kopie.JPG
long billed male 3cy, bill tip all black, very small p10 mirror, hardly any p10 tongue, some inner GC renewed, p1+2 shed
5 2010.05.09 sfantu gheorghe lb 5060 - Kopie.JPG (74.47KiB)Viewed 11171 times
Attachments
5 2010.05.08 sfantu gheorghe lb 4986 - Kopie.JPG
same ind., dorsal view. note very bleached remaining inner primaries.
5 2010.05.08 sfantu gheorghe lb 4986 - Kopie.JPG (80.13KiB)Viewed 11171 times

lou bertalan
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and the mine field of 4-5cy birds

Post by lou bertalan » Thu May 27, 2010 11:57 am

some comments and questions to the birds soon will follow...just have a look for now.
Attachments
5 2010.05.09 sfantu gheorghe lb 5050.JPG
5 2010.05.09 sfantu gheorghe lb 5050.JPG (61.42KiB)Viewed 11159 times
5 2010.05.09 sfantu gheorghe lb 5028 - Kopie.JPG
5 2010.05.09 sfantu gheorghe lb 5028 - Kopie.JPG (63.62KiB)Viewed 11159 times
5 2010.05.09 sfantu gheorghe lb 5027 - Kopie.JPG
5 2010.05.09 sfantu gheorghe lb 5027 - Kopie.JPG (82.35KiB)Viewed 11159 times
5 2010.05.09 sfantu gheorghe lb 5024 - Kopie.JPG
5 2010.05.09 sfantu gheorghe lb 5024 - Kopie.JPG (73.47KiB)Viewed 11159 times
5 2010.05.09 sfantu gheorghe lb 5011 - Kopie.JPG
5 2010.05.09 sfantu gheorghe lb 5011 - Kopie.JPG (42.96KiB)Viewed 11159 times
5 2010.05.09 sfantu gheorghe lb 5010 - Kopie.JPG
5 2010.05.09 sfantu gheorghe lb 5010 - Kopie.JPG (54.1KiB)Viewed 11159 times
5 2010.05.09 sfantu gheorghe lb 5005.JPG
5 2010.05.09 sfantu gheorghe lb 5005.JPG (80.26KiB)Viewed 11159 times
5 2010.05.09 sfantu gheorghe lb 5004 - Kopie.JPG
5 2010.05.09 sfantu gheorghe lb 5004 - Kopie.JPG (63.05KiB)Viewed 11159 times
5 2010.05.09 sfantu gheorghe lb 5002 - Kopie.JPG
5 2010.05.09 sfantu gheorghe lb 5002 - Kopie.JPG (80.53KiB)Viewed 11159 times
5 2010.05.09 sfantu gheorghe lb 5001 - Kopie.JPG
5 2010.05.09 sfantu gheorghe lb 5001 - Kopie.JPG (72.78KiB)Viewed 11159 times
5 2010.05.09 sfantu gheorghe lb 5000 - Kopie.JPG
5 2010.05.09 sfantu gheorghe lb 5000 - Kopie.JPG (78.64KiB)Viewed 11159 times
5 2010.05.09 sfantu gheorghe lb 4999 - Kopie.JPG
5 2010.05.09 sfantu gheorghe lb 4999 - Kopie.JPG (72.01KiB)Viewed 11159 times
5 2010.05.09 sfantu gheorghe lb 4996 - Kopie.JPG
5 2010.05.09 sfantu gheorghe lb 4996 - Kopie.JPG (134.54KiB)Viewed 11159 times
5 2010.05.09 sfantu gheorghe lb 4995 - Kopie.JPG
5 2010.05.09 sfantu gheorghe lb 4995 - Kopie.JPG (74.12KiB)Viewed 11159 times
5 2010.05.09 sfantu gheorghe lb 4994 - Kopie.JPG
5 2010.05.09 sfantu gheorghe lb 4994 - Kopie.JPG (98.49KiB)Viewed 11159 times

adriaens
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Joined:Sun Sep 27, 2009 9:24 pm

Re: 2cy and 3cy

Post by adriaens » Thu May 27, 2010 5:47 pm

lou bertalan wrote:these types where the rarest present (2cy = 2 ind. photogr. ; 3cy = 4 ind. photogr.)
do some 2cy spend their 1st summer on wintering grounds?
Only a few, I would say.

Image
probably a michahellis (2cy), a rare sight inside the danube delta, on a main branch of danube. left wing p1-4 missing, outer 2 secondaries renewed, most MC missing
Actually, those are inner primaries that have been renewed, not outer secondaries. So P1-2 are new, and P3-4 are missing.

Great to see so many reference shots from the breeding grounds!

lou bertalan
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Post by lou bertalan » Thu May 27, 2010 8:04 pm

thanks peter, i thought so (2 inner primaries renewed) from the beginning - which would have been logic since the moult gap should look immense with 4 missing primaries. but then i read the michahellis text here:
http://www.gull-research.org/ylg1cy2cy/ ... 2cymay.htm
"By early May, primary moult is in progress with an average primary moult score of 3.5 by mid-May. Most advanced birds by mid-May show an obvious gap in the inner primaries, already missing P5 (almost 10% of the birds). Out of 43 birds, none had all primaries still in place and none had P1 still in place."

that and the short looking appearance (and that i didn't find anything about secondary moult in my hurry) made me sway towards outer secondaries :oops:

edit: my conclusion was nonsenese. can't believe i misunderstood that text.
Last edited by lou bertalan on Fri Jun 18, 2010 9:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.

lou bertalan
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notes on the 4cy

Post by lou bertalan » Tue Jun 01, 2010 7:31 pm

some remarks to the 4cy type birds from previous posts (bumping it into a new post):

5028 and 5027 (same bird) apparently has only a p10 mirror, lacking a p9 mirror. its bill is fully alternate adult (no dark mark) - gonys spot looks red/red-orange and some reddish hue seems to be present on upper mandible as well (not the first caspian with this trait but the first non-adult i saw).

5024 is how i'd expect a "typical" (if there is such) 4cy caspian should look, esp. shape and size of mirrors. ventral p10 tongue is about half the visible length of p10, this is about as far as in many adult michahellis but the rectangular 'cut' seems to be typical of caspian (while many caspians don't show such rectangular cut!)

5010, 5005 and 5004 has a shorter p10 tongue (less than half of visible p10)

5000, 5001 and 5002: now this one had me astonished most. either is it pretty retarded - with short p10 tongue, many dark underwing markings and a full and broad tail band(!), plus there seems to be only a small p10 mirror, unfortunately not well visible, only in pic 5002. a similar pattern often is found in same aged michahellis (but p10 mirror usually differently shaped and ventral p10 tongue slightly shorter or absent) or - maybe in eastern types of cachinnans??? such birds seem to occure in romania and central europe with a certain regularity, unfortunately we don't know their origin.

4995 and 4994 has a white shaft and pale 'borders' on both sides of it ( a feature i have not seen yet to this extent); p10 mirror is divided: rel long and without subterminal mark on outer web, smallish on inner web. p9 mirror small and round, restricted to outer web. pale iris.

- apropos pale iris - this caspian has been misidentified as argentatus recently, romanian black sea coast. it has a whitish-yellow iris: http://www.birding.hu/img/39383-PEYHFS5 ... 4GQW34N0C3

lou bertalan
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Re: danube delta, romania

Post by lou bertalan » Fri Aug 27, 2010 8:10 pm

these 4cy types now also in higher resolution (click below large pic on "higher resolution") here: http://lou.bertalan.de/gulls/m_newest.php
comments welcome, esp. to bird in pics 526-528

lou bertalan
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juveniles: sfantu gheorghe september 2010

Post by lou bertalan » Fri Sep 10, 2010 8:38 am

hi all,

just back from the mouth of danube, sfantu gheorghe, where i tried to spend some minutes for hastily shooting some juvenile caspians (the only sp. seen at sfantu g.). unfortunately too hasty :cry:
what struck me was that most juvs i observed, at least the majority where very well marked, some really dark. warm afternoon light may affect colours a bit though but many actually do look like this. are these delta birds or from ukraine or both? no ring.
a slight impuls maybe for the ambitious cachinnans project mars proposed here: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=349

5864/5 is a very dark bird, looks almost like a mich, blurry 5852 could be the same could be another bird
5854, 5872 and 5856-8 are different birds
5926-33 is a juv male on the danube further upstream. note large amount of black on rectrices!
i didn't select pale birds out :)

sorry for showing unsharp pics.

first session, 2.09.
Attachments
o15IMG_5933 - Kopie.JPG
o15IMG_5933 - Kopie.JPG (76.16KiB)Viewed 10873 times
o14IMG_5932 - Kopie.JPG
o14IMG_5932 - Kopie.JPG (69.17KiB)Viewed 10873 times
o13IMG_5931 - Kopie.JPG
o13IMG_5931 - Kopie.JPG (70.26KiB)Viewed 10873 times
o12IMG_5929 - Kopie.JPG
same bird, axies and uppertail
o12IMG_5929 - Kopie.JPG (122.76KiB)Viewed 10873 times
o11IMG_5926 - Kopie.JPG
o11IMG_5926 - Kopie.JPG (118.89KiB)Viewed 10873 times
o10IMG_5889 - Kopie.JPG
o10IMG_5889 - Kopie.JPG (80.1KiB)Viewed 10873 times
o9IMG_5872 - Kopie.JPG
o9IMG_5872 - Kopie.JPG (60.71KiB)Viewed 10873 times
o8IMG_5865 - Kopie.JPG
o8IMG_5865 - Kopie.JPG (65.8KiB)Viewed 10873 times
o7IMG_5864 - Kopie.JPG
o7IMG_5864 - Kopie.JPG (68.16KiB)Viewed 10873 times
o6IMG_5858 - Kopie.JPG
o6IMG_5858 - Kopie.JPG (59.99KiB)Viewed 10873 times
o5IMG_5857 - Kopie.JPG
o5IMG_5857 - Kopie.JPG (63.9KiB)Viewed 10873 times
o4IMG_5856 - Kopie.JPG
o4IMG_5856 - Kopie.JPG (59.42KiB)Viewed 10873 times
o3IMG_5854 - Kopie.JPG
o3IMG_5854 - Kopie.JPG (63.09KiB)Viewed 10873 times
o2IMG_5853 - Kopie.JPG
o2IMG_5853 - Kopie.JPG (56.79KiB)Viewed 10873 times
o1IMG_5852 - Kopie.JPG
would you first think of caspian with such a chocolate underwing ..
o1IMG_5852 - Kopie.JPG (56.7KiB)Viewed 10873 times

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