mystery from black sea

lou bertalan · Post by **lou bertalan** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 9:18 pm

hi,

just received some pics from mamaia, black sea coast, romania, taken today early afternoon by ciprian fantana amd joszef szabo.
it is clearly darker mantled than the nearby michs and cachs and has black down to p4, p5 with a large mark.
the dilemma: legs are pale flesh coloured, bill base is pale but primary tips are large for a subadult western LBBG.
adult heuglini excluded by moult score. but what about a subadult (4cy) heuglni? - http://gull-research.org/heuglini/heug4cy/4cynov01.html and http://gull-research.org/heuglini/heug4cy/4cynov03.html have a similar score.
does a 4cy graellsii look like this with such flesh coloured legs?
i'm thinking towards a heuglini x argentatus from russia (remember greg's colony east of moscow...)
note tongue on p9 in pic 80290.

lou bertalan

lou bertalan · Post by **lou bertalan** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 8:36 am

maybe i should ask the western advocates: what is more likely, a

1. 4cy graellsii with large apical spots, pinkish legs and a large p10 mirror?

2. an adult graellsii with pinkish legs and rather pale mantle?

3. a young adult heuglini x argentatus from russia with advanced primary moult?

lou

Ruud Altenburg · Post by **Ruud Altenburg** » Wed Nov 16, 2011 4:26 pm

Pure (sub)adult graellsii with pinkish legs? I don't recall ever having seen one. When I see a bird like this in Holland I classify it as Herring x LBBG.

lou bertalan · Post by **lou bertalan** » Wed Nov 16, 2011 6:49 pm

thanks, that's exactly my thoughts but i'm too unexperienced with graellsii.
i'm just worried about argentatus x heuglini both of which should be later in primary moult, especially in northern breeders. but who knows if it's really that northern...i wouldn't have expected heuglini to breed as far south as ivanovo oblast until i saw greg's pics.

lou

Ruud Altenburg · Post by **Ruud Altenburg** » Wed Nov 16, 2011 9:02 pm

Here are a few examples from Holland.

lou bertalan · Post by **lou bertalan** » Thu Nov 17, 2011 8:05 am

Ruud Altenburg wrote:Here are a few examples from Holland.

thanks ruud.

this link works for me: http://waarneming.nl/soort/photos/20507

this bird (4cy) looks like a good match: although bill is more retarded, its apical spots are rel. large:

http://waarneming.nl/soort/photos/20507 ... d=0&page=4 (20.11.2009 by Tom Damm)

lou

www.gull-research.org

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