Russian gull ringread in Austria

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WolfgangSchweighofer
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Russian gull ringread in Austria

Post by WolfgangSchweighofer » Wed Dec 22, 2010 5:15 pm

Hello,

another success in Austrian ringreading!
Obviously motivated by my successful ringreading with several Ukrainian rings, yesterday Richard Katzinger and Sergej Ucakar have visited the gull hotspots around Krems/river Donau.
They have read 3 rings of large gulls: yellow PUCT (again from Ukraine/Cherkassy), green XVAP from Germany (mixed inland colony) and yellow PVVS. Last one was an enigma for me and so I have asked Greg Neubauer about that number.

PVVS is the first recovery of his 2010 Russia expedition! The bird was ringed as a chick on an island in river Wolga between Nishni Nowgorod and Kasan and moved west nearly 2300km! Unfortunately Richard has only read rings and did not take pictures, only one digiscoping with his mobile telephone...

Today I have been in Krems at 2 o´clock p.m., but when I approached the gulls roosting area on the ice of the authorities port, all the hundreds gull flew away and were swimming in the river Donau :ugeek:
Later I have met Richard there and he had watched the gulls one hour earlier without any problems, among them again PVVS! I have seen 2 mobile pictures, seems to be a cachinnans, and now we have to wait until he can load those pic´s on his PC.
In the deep darkness I could spot only 2 ringed birds, again 4P45 and XVAP. Interesting bird. I don´t know, is it a HG or a hybrid???
Attachments
XVAP.jpg
XVAP is in the right upper edge, compare with some pure cachinnans!
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WolfgangSchweighofer
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Re: Russian gull ringread in Austria

Post by WolfgangSchweighofer » Thu Dec 23, 2010 6:45 pm

Good evening,

I´ve just got the mobilescopings of Richard. here are 3 of them to get an impression of the Wolga bird.
Attachments
PVVS01.jpg
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PVVS04.jpg
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PVVS07.jpg
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lou bertalan
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Re: Russian gull ringread in Austria

Post by lou bertalan » Thu Dec 23, 2010 7:33 pm

hi wolfgang,

body shape and crisp pattern to GC looks very odd for a caspian gull. what did greg say about the species constellation he found at that place? i imagine it will have been hard for himself...is there any report about greg's expedition available?

merry x mas,

lou

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WolfgangSchweighofer
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Re: Russian gull ringread in Austria

Post by WolfgangSchweighofer » Thu Dec 23, 2010 8:22 pm

Greg hasn´t seen these pic´s yet, he isn´t at home next days. His team discovered that colony in June 2010. It consisted of mainly cachinnans, also few argentatus, heuglini and ‘heuglini x sth‘-type birds (whatever that means :?: ) had been present, I received a few pic´s.
PVVS seems to be a small bird (female?), somewhat different to western cachinnans ("ponticus"), maybe it has argentatus genes? Anyway, a blood sample was taken; I hope to get some results when the analysis is done...

For me it is really exciting that so many gulls from further east are occuring now in Austria. We have read more birds from Ukraine and even Russia than such from Poland. Btw: L010368, shown in another thread is from the same place at Dnjepr river like the colourringed individuals are. Ringed on the same day. Interesting also, that hundreds of Common and Blackheaded Gulls in Krems had not one single ring. I think they are also from Russia, Ukraine, Belarus,...
Differences in size of Common Gulls were obvious - heinei?

Best Christmas wishes
Wolfgang

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Theo Muusse
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Re: Russian gull ringread in Austria

Post by Theo Muusse » Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:00 am

When looking at the ring, I noticed the V to be rounded...
Comparing the V with the V in PUVN, I think the code is not PVVS but PUUS.
Anyone?

Theo
Attachments
yellow_PUVN_cach1cy_01112010_Lubna_02_MR.jpg
yellow_PUVN_cach1cy_01112010_Lubna_02_MR.jpg (127.67 KiB) Viewed 4622 times

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WolfgangSchweighofer
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Re: Russian gull ringread in Austria

Post by WolfgangSchweighofer » Sat Dec 22, 2012 6:37 pm

Thank you, Theo, for your suspicion ;)

Of course I had noticed this curved bases of the 2 V on the poor picture too. But I know Richard Katzinger, one of the best upcoming birders in Austria. His focus is on raptors and he really attracts species like Imperial Eagle or Long Legged Buzzard. He reads a lot of Aquila heliaca c-rings by flightshot. Last winters he moved consistantly to gull observing and read a lot of rings at Krems and Gneixendorf (more than I by myself). Of course he is equipped with famous Austrian optics, and - related to his job as teacher - I think he can distinguish between V and U...
Conclusio - I never had any doubt on the reading PVVS, because I know the observer, his equipment, the location - personally I was only half an hour to late to see the bird by myself. On the other hand Richard had seen the bird 2 times free on ice at distances of 30 to 50 meters by telescope.

Believe me, when he phoned me to report the PVVS the first time, I asked him several times, if the reading is true. Because I knew what that reding would matter.
Theo, the curves you see, are artefacts of a poor mobilescoping. The pictures were shown to discuss the species of this bird not to prove the reading. Greg Neubauer himself excluded definitely this bird to be a cachinnans and PUVN or PUUS would be pure Caspian Gulls from Ukraine...

Wolfgang

edit: I´ve grabbed out the old email and found this pic. No curves to see here...
Attachments
PVVS06.jpg
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Theo Muusse
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Re: Russian gull ringread in Austria

Post by Theo Muusse » Sat Jan 05, 2013 7:48 pm

It was not an attack on the credibility of the reading, I just was very curious about this top-reading!!
To me it gave the idea of it looking like UU instead of VV.
That's all.

Cheers, Theo

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Theo Muusse
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Re: Russian gull ringread in Austria

Post by Theo Muusse » Sat Jan 05, 2013 7:50 pm

My curiosity is because of the interest in ringed cachinnans outside breeding zones.
I am, together with others, trying to collect all records of ringed birds in Europe and was very interested in this record.

I hope you will still help?

Theo Muusse

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WolfgangSchweighofer
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Re: Russian gull ringread in Austria

Post by WolfgangSchweighofer » Wed Dec 31, 2014 8:23 pm

Hi,

nothing to help in the last 2 years :( . There was no winter in the last year and therefore no large gulls at Krems and Gneixendorf. And my local spot at Wörth has gone...

But today it was cold and I was in Krems and looked for gulls. Really, the first large ones had arrived. The first 2 Caspian rings - from Slowakia - after a long time for me. And then a yellow ring at the end: PVUN - the Russian series again, just at the same place, where Richard spotted the famous PVVS!

A bird in it´s 3rd winter, but definitely no pure Caspian. Maybe it has some Caspian genes in it, but I would see some features of Herring Gull here: bright eyes, still darkish bill, juvenile coverts and dark chequered underside.
I have seen that there are some records in Israel too, these birds have heuglini or barabensis blood, ours should be Herring Gulls?
PVUN1.jpg
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PVUN2.jpg
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PVUN3.jpg
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Best wishes for 2015
Wolfgang

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marsmuusse
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Re: Russian gull ringread in Austria

Post by marsmuusse » Tue Jan 13, 2015 10:26 am

2 years without gulls. Did you manage? ;-)
Great finding of course, this really is a way to come back again! And what a stunner it is, easy to imagine there is some hybridisation going on in the 'Greg region'!
Agree with you Wolfgang, this is a bit beyond pure cachinnans as we know them in Europe.

I'm not sure if this really is in 3rd winter though, brown outer primaries without mirror. Lets wait for the history by Greg...

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