most advanced 2nd cycle caspian?

[lou bertalan]

http://waarneming.nl/waarneming/view/51692731?_popup=1#

http://waarneming.nl/fotonew/4/1784704.jpg

has anybody seen a 2nd winter (2.gen primaries) with p9 mirror and such a large p10 mirror? bill colour also advanced (while this is more common).
it even had me thinking if not possibly a very retarded 4cy, but i think 3cy is correct after all. i just haven't seen a 2.cycle cach with such large mirrors. any other examples?

[adriaens]

Can't say I have seen it to this extent, but I do have this 2c bird (from Hermalle, Belgium, 28 Feb 2009) with suggestion of a tiny mirror on P9:

[lou bertalan]

hi all,

this bird photogr. by cristian in bucharest on 27.01.2011 is either a very advanced 2nd or a very retarded 3rd cycle cach. what do you think?

description (after pics): http://lou.bertalan.de/gulls/m_phi.php? ... nuary-june
higher resolution: http://lou.bertalan.de/gulls/pic/vh/up_0805.jpg

cheers,

lou

[Cristian Mihai]

Lou, this is not relevant for a discussion about the age of the bird, but the pics are taken in Tineretului.

[Theo Muusse]

I always give high value to the secondaries, when aging a gull.
In this case, I would be surprised if these secondaries where 2nd generation, although they cannot be judged really well.
Giving the primaries, brown and patterned up to p3, it really is hard to believe this is a 3rd winter.

Theo

[lou bertalan]

I always give high value to the secondaries, when aging a gull.
In this case, I would be surprised if these secondaries where 2nd generation, although they cannot be judged really well.
Giving the primaries, brown and patterned up to p3, it really is hard to believe this is a 3rd winter.

Theo

thanks theo. i noted the secondaries as well but am not aware about their variation. they look very broad white edged, little dark in centers.
as for the patterning of inner primaries, i think the last one we see complete is p4 (with a solid mark) but we see the shafts of p3 and p2 which are brown and seem to have a brown hue like in 2nd gen. primaries.