ad cach from Romania, May 2009

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Theo Muusse
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ad cach from Romania, May 2009

Post by Theo Muusse » Mon Oct 26, 2009 7:52 pm

Here is a sample of cach's from the breeding grounds.

Theo
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pim wolf
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Re: ad cach from Romania, May 2009

Post by pim wolf » Tue Oct 27, 2009 11:19 pm

great to see that you finally had some time to go through your "old" pics Theo. Two things; one, lots of gulls at Westkapelle see I guess I'll you there thursday. Two, bring on the Great Black-headed pics!

pim

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Theo Muusse
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Re: ad cach from Romania, May 2009

Post by Theo Muusse » Sat Oct 31, 2009 8:51 pm

This one?

Theo
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JanJ
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Re: ad cach from Romania, May 2009

Post by JanJ » Sun Nov 01, 2009 5:11 pm

Very good cachinnans images!
Interesting to note the variation in the shape and width of the dark mark on p5.

JanJ

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Theo Muusse
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Re: ad cach from Romania, May 2009

Post by Theo Muusse » Wed Nov 04, 2009 8:05 pm

Indeed, have a look at this one!
Also, Mars, can you use this one for your primary count quest? p3 old on 20090513.

Theo
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Theo Muusse
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Re: ad cach from Romania, May 2009

Post by Theo Muusse » Wed Nov 04, 2009 8:18 pm

Some do show very broad bands on p5.

Theo
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Re: ad cach from Romania, May 2009

Post by Theo Muusse » Wed Nov 04, 2009 8:30 pm

Some do not have black at all and show a heavy angled bill. Also seen in Romania on 20090513, but not a hardcore cach either (as one in the other topic).
Is Herring Gull really not breeding in Romania? Or is this a really late migrant? Or can cachinnans look like this?

Theo
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Re: ad cach from Romania, May 2009

Post by Theo Muusse » Wed Nov 04, 2009 8:36 pm

Note p1 growing in with p2 still old.

Theo
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JanJ
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Re: ad cach from Romania, May 2009

Post by JanJ » Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:25 pm

Good ones again Theo!

Although the dark mark on cachinnans varies - which is also shown here - and some can have a surprisingly thin mark, sometimes not meeting on the shaft, but a total lack of any markings I have yet to see. The combination of billshape, some males are quite heavy-billed but that blunt-tipped michahellis bill... and headstructure (give and take the angle) suggest maybe a hybrid, probably with argentatus genes. Could michahellis be involved with such a primary and p5 pattern, I would think not! (?) Also the a great tendency for cachinnans to have the p5 mark broader on the outer web is well shown here to, often also in those with a thin mark. Some can show a broad outer web mark but with only a small dot on the inner web or a thin dark line as shown in one of Theos pic.

Fascinating gull cachinnas, the king of gulls!

JanJ

lou bertalan
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Re: ad cach from Romania, May 2009

Post by lou bertalan » Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:27 pm

JanJ wrote:Good ones again Theo!

but a total lack of any markings I have yet to see.

JanJ
well, this one might be the first you see, jan? ;)
i myself waited long time to see such a bird - without any p5 mark and surely my exitement is big - thanks, theo.
we'll probably not be able to know if it has argentatus genes or not, as far as i know argentatus does not breed anywhere in the area (within 1000 km), the closest hybrid populations being in white russia, russia and of course, poland. disturbing, but we might need to accept that a small percentage of cachinnans indeed lack a p5 mark. see lastest 2 pics of a bird from may 2007 here: http://lou.bertalan.de/birds/
is there some red on upper mandible, theo? it would emphasize the michahellis look of it. nonetheless i think with the p9 and 10 grey tongues, the very large p9 mirror, dark iris looks like it excludes either argentatus & michahellis.

cheers,

lou

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