Presumed Heuglini from Hungary

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hieraaetus
Posts: 104
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2010 7:53 am

Presumed Heuglini from Hungary

Post by hieraaetus » Mon Dec 01, 2014 7:35 pm

Hi Guys,

Here is a 1st-winter LBBG from today from Hungary. It has fresh, intact plumage, not one feather has been moulted. It was as big as the surrounding CGs and it had a bit different shape than that of fuscus of similar age. It also had longer legs, less elongated, wide pale edges of all coverts and feathers on mantle and back.

I would call this a very good candidate of 'heuglini', would like to hear what you think.

Cheers,

Gabor
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lou bertalan
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Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 2:43 pm
Location: stuttgart, SW germany
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Re: Presumed Heuglini from Hungary

Post by lou bertalan » Mon Dec 01, 2014 8:43 pm

szia gabor,

i think it is either heuglini or intermedius with the latter (intermedius) probably being the more likely candidate. most LBBG obs. in western romania and which are not nominate fuscus probably belong to intermedius. many norwegian intermedius still are all juvenile in november. and some males are as large as the average caspian gull. so this is the biggest problem for it being a heuglini. but it still be one although in my opinion less likely than intermedius. there are no water proof features separating them in juv plumage...i have the same problem with a bird photographed today in southern germany.

best,

lou

hieraaetus
Posts: 104
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2010 7:53 am

Re: Presumed Heuglini from Hungary

Post by hieraaetus » Mon Dec 01, 2014 8:53 pm

lou bertalan wrote:szia gabor,

i think it is either heuglini or intermedius with the latter (intermedius) probably being the more likely candidate. most LBBG obs. in western romania and which are not nominate fuscus probably belong to intermedius. many norwegian intermedius still are all juvenile in november. and some males are as large as the average caspian gull. so this is the biggest problem for it being a heuglini. but it still be one although in my opinion less likely than intermedius. there are no water proof features separating them in juv plumage...i have the same problem with a bird photographed today in southern germany.

best,

lou
Thanks Lou!

You are probably aware of this observation from Romania: http://rombird.ro/ro/obg/1839/index
It looks pretty much the same:))

Cheers,

Gabor

ps: I have never seen any juvenile LBBG matching CGs in size at my local spot before, and maybe only one or two birds (both smallish fuscuses) sporting full, fresh juvenile plumage.

lou bertalan
Posts: 503
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 2:43 pm
Location: stuttgart, SW germany
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Re: Presumed Heuglini from Hungary

Post by lou bertalan » Mon Dec 01, 2014 10:10 pm

yupp, and i was instantly thinking about that bird. so, yours may well be a heuglini (pale undersides of greater coverts and secondaries actually look good for that candidate), but nevertheless intermedius surely passes Hungary in migration. One adult intermedius-type yesterday here in Stuttgart, and this putative one from Tübingen today - see attached (i'm not yet toatally convinced what it actually is). So they are still on the move.
Observation and pic by Nils Agster.
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hieraaetus
Posts: 104
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2010 7:53 am

Re: Presumed Heuglini from Hungary

Post by hieraaetus » Mon Dec 01, 2014 10:36 pm

lou bertalan wrote:yupp, and i was instantly thinking about that bird. so, yours may well be a heuglini (pale undersides of greater coverts and secondaries actually look good for that candidate), but nevertheless intermedius surely passes Hungary in migration. One adult intermedius-type yesterday here in Stuttgart, and this putative one from Tübingen today - see attached (i'm not yet toatally convinced what it actually is). So they are still on the move.
Observation and pic by Nils Agster.
Thanks!

Sure western LBBGs pass here this time of the year. Here are two different adults from last month.
One of them (bird from 11.24.) actually has some traits one would expect on Asian birds having dark marks on upper coverts and dark-peppered eyes, distant and small P10 mirror..otherwise a good intermedius. The other one from 10.31 would suit heuglini as well considering peppered eyes, paler mantle, moult stage, necklace etc, however, it shows P9 mirror besides big P10 mirror...

Have you checked my previous posts of possible eastern cachinnans in CG section and a 2cy cachinnans with pale eyes in the ID section? You might be interested in those birds:)

All the best,

Gabor
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