Information request about primary moult

[alex]

Hello,

I would like to know how i can separate, by reading the primary moult status, these trhee gull species (and subspecies) in winter (from November to March)


Adult Larus fuscus graelsii/intermedius
Adult Larus fuscus fuscus
Adult Larus heuglini


For example, at the end oof December, If I saw an adult gull with a very dark mantle, white P10 tip, P1-P5 renewed (with white at the end) and P6,P7,P8,P9 without white spots (or very very faint white spots) , which (sub)species would it be? Would it be intermedius or fuscus?
And assuming the moult is the one specified above, if the mantle is lighter gray, would it be a graelsi or heuglini?

If the P10 has a white tip in December, does it mean it's still old or has it been renewed?

What primary moult and pattern should I expect from those three species in winter (adult individuals), let's say at the end of December?

Sorry for the terms I used, but I'm not such an expert


Thanks a lot
Alex

[marsmuusse]

Hi Alex,

If you like December as an example, you may check the following webpages (assumed the bird is an adult, otherwise, check the plumage you are interested in):

fuscus: http://www.israel.gull-research.org/05cydec.html
graellsii/intermedius: http://www.gull-research.org/lbbgnovdec/05cynov.htm
heuglini: http://gull-research.org/heuglini/05cydec.html (still under construction).

Success, Mars

[alex]

Hello,

There's something I can't understand. I will upload some pics of and individual (is that an adult?)I digiscoped on December 30 2010, on a lake in the north west of Italy.
By reading the primary moult and all of the other characters, it has been identified as a Larus fuscus fuscus on an italian birdwatching forum (http://www.ebnitalia.it) .
Can you confirm this ID? The p10 this bird is showing has white on its tip, does it mean it's been renewed already or is it still old? About The other outer primaries, are they still moulting? The inner primaries have already been renewed, is that correct?

Thanks in advance
Alex

[Theo Muusse]

It looks like in both wings the p1 has been shed/missing.
This may suggest fuscus fuscus since they start moulting after arriving on the wintering grounds.
The other primaries look very fresh though, which may also suggest p2-p10 had been moulted already and p1 is being dropped again.
That would also make it possibly an intermedius/ graellsii.

Theo