michahellis x cachinnans

[Theo Muusse]

Given the michahellis features like coverts, tailband, tertials, underwing and the cachinnans features like the inner primaries, bill, head at moments and breast/ belly line, we are dealing with a classic hybrid?
Today at my home town in Holland.

Theo Muusse

[JanJ]

Hello Theo.

To start the suggestions,
why not argentatus/argenteus x michahellis?

Jan

[lou bertalan]

Hello Theo.

To start the suggestions,
why not argentatus/argenteus x michahellis?

Jan

that sound's like a better aternative. i don't see so many caspian aspects. with the large and notched tertial crescents, reduced moult and weak bill. but it could well be a pure female michahellis. all the oddities in this bird occure in romanian michahellis to some extent.
- extended pale inner webs to p1-6, large and notched tertial edges, paler getting iris and bill in 1st winter (btw - is this found often in HG?), paller getting bill, pattern on 2nd gen. scaps etc.
head is perfect for a female michahellis.

i'll search through some images. you know this one by chris gibbins: http://lou.bertalan.de/birds/pic/hi/up_0137.jpg
this one has also notched tertials: http://lou.bertalan.de/birds/pic/hi/up_0126.jpg
and this one e.g. has pale inner webs to p8 (attch.)

11 2009.11.01 dambovita cm PB014720m - Kopie.jpg (123.85KiB)Viewed 3761 times

best,

lou

[Theo Muusse]

Here is thye cach-head-shape.
Also note its belly/ breast jizz.
Theo

[lou bertalan]

hi theo,

still looks more like the hanging belly of an argentatus and head shape doesn't particularly look 'cachoid'. i see the high breast bend but as a whole the bird looks pretty compact. it might of course be due to resting stance but still it doesn't ring very much the pontic feel. surely it's hard to definitely exclude a hybrid like you suggested but micha x argentatus seems the better option for me. actually cachi x micha hybrids are my most sought after gull "objects" since i mostly deal with these 2 species but i have to say that all the contenders from a SE european view would look a bit different. i don't know exactly what's going on in poland but i think this is definitely the rarest hybrid combination among the 3 pale grey mantled species. actually i haven't seen any definite cachi x micha yet (e.g. proven by ring).

cheers,

lou

[Ruud Altenburg]

Mars and I had a putative hybrid michahellis x cachinnans in Amsterdam a few years ago. I have included a few pictures on that page of a proven hybrid from Poland, which does look neither like our nor like Theo's bird!