canus vs delawarensis??

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hieraaetus
Posts: 104
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2010 7:53 am

canus vs delawarensis??

Post by hieraaetus » Thu Dec 23, 2010 7:42 pm

Hi All,

I would like to share an observation I made and some pictures I took of a strange-looking bird on Dec 22. in Debrecen, Hungary.
To me it shows features of both COGU and RGB so I'm clueless right now what it can be. Any comments would be more than welcome.

Happy Holidays!

cheers,

Gabor
Attachments
4297_org.jpg
the bird in question is on the right.
4297_org.jpg (204.71 KiB) Viewed 5046 times
4280_org.jpg
it was clearly bigger and longer-legged than the other COGUs
4280_org.jpg (105.21 KiB) Viewed 5046 times
4212_org.jpg
4212_org.jpg (157.53 KiB) Viewed 5046 times
4206_org.jpg
4206_org.jpg (110.19 KiB) Viewed 5046 times

Lars krogh
Posts: 41
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:14 pm

Re: canus vs delawarensis??

Post by Lars krogh » Fri Dec 24, 2010 6:33 pm

The bird looks more like a delawarensis judging from your pictures ;-) .

hieraaetus
Posts: 104
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2010 7:53 am

Re: canus vs delawarensis??

Post by hieraaetus » Fri Dec 24, 2010 6:56 pm

Thanks Lars!

Well, I have mixed feelings about it. I went through all the features I know and I read but I'm just not convinced..

This would be the 2nd or 3rd observation for Hungary so identification has to be well-founded.

I spent 6 years in the States and saw loads of RBGs but somehow it doesn't help me now. If I was there I would say it's a bit odd RBG. But here in Europe probably would be safer to say an odd COGU, wouldn't it?

Merry Xmas!

Cheers,

Gabor

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JanJ
Posts: 426
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 10:08 pm

Re: canus vs delawarensis??

Post by JanJ » Fri Dec 24, 2010 7:07 pm

I agree with Lars, its a 1 cycle (1st winter) Ring-billed Gull alright.

http://www.sibleyguides.com/2009/12/var ... led-gulls/

Is this a new species for Hungary Gabor?

JanJ

hieraaetus
Posts: 104
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2010 7:53 am

Re: canus vs delawarensis??

Post by hieraaetus » Fri Dec 24, 2010 8:01 pm

JanJ wrote:I agree with Lars, its a 1 cycle (1st winter) Ring-billed Gull alright.

http://www.sibleyguides.com/2009/12/var ... led-gulls/

Is this a new species for Hungary Gabor?

JanJ
Hi Jan,

I think the 2nd or 3rd obs. ever..and the first one backed up by pictures:))

Thanks for the link i will check it out!

Merry Christmas!

Cheers,

Gabor

hieraaetus
Posts: 104
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2010 7:53 am

Re: canus vs delawarensis??

Post by hieraaetus » Fri Dec 24, 2010 9:01 pm

Dear Jan and Lars,

Would you do me a favor and pass these pics along to as many gullers as you can and ask their opinion?

Does any of you have contact information of Klaus Malling Olsen?

I need as many opinions as I can get to see crystal clear:)

cheers,

Gabor

Lars krogh
Posts: 41
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:14 pm

Re: canus vs delawarensis??

Post by Lars krogh » Sat Dec 25, 2010 12:26 am


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Hans Larsson
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Re: canus vs delawarensis??

Post by Hans Larsson » Sat Dec 25, 2010 11:08 am

Hi!
SIze, the few moulted coverts and tail pattern is interesting, but otherways I get only COGU impression from these photos. Although it´s subjective, the face expression is spot on for COGU, IMO. It´s a large bird, but the built seems still very slender (especially legs and bill), not different from COGU. I would expect thicker legs and a deeper bill, although you´ll find RBG´s with quite neat bills. A bit paler mantle shade would also be better. It seems clearly darker than the surrounding BHG´s for example. The scapular pattern is odd for RB at this time of the year, when they typically have more or less pale fringing combined with dark chevrons. The wing coverts are also spot on for COGU, with very simple pattern, compared with the typical chevron-markings of RBG, similar to the pattern in Med-Gull. With this type of wear I´m sure this would be visible. And even in a pale bird like this, I would expect darker head markings in a typical RBG.

Cheers,
/Hans

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JanJ
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Re: canus vs delawarensis??

Post by JanJ » Sat Dec 25, 2010 11:54 am

Hi Gabor.
On a revisit - I was realy not happy with the grey tone and spindly legs, which raised some doubts and I would now agree with Hans (a very sound man indeed ;) ), that RBG might be doubtful. It´s true that some RBG are small-billed and there´s a lot of variation.

http://www.ilbirds.com/index.php?topic=43039.0

I was struck by the large size and somewhat the pattern of the inner primaries, although the pattern of the outer web isn´t clearly visible, like on this RBG:

http://www.pbase.com/shonn/image/119560730

Note arrow shaped tips to inner primaries compared to Common Gull in the last pic here:

http://www.birdersplayground.co.uk/Comm ... years.html

Set of RBG:

http://www.birdersplayground.co.uk/Ring ... years.html

It´s an interesting CG anyhow!

JanJ

hieraaetus
Posts: 104
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2010 7:53 am

Re: canus vs delawarensis??

Post by hieraaetus » Sat Dec 25, 2010 7:29 pm

Thanks to you all!

It seems that I will keep it as 'just' an odd COGU in my files. But it was eye-opening reading you comments and browsing through the websites you sent.

Hope to bump into a real RBG some day here at my spot.

Happy Holidays!

Gabor

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