Subspecies Larus fuscus?

[WolfgangSchweighofer]

Hello,
I have similar problems with subspecies of LBBG, like Gabor has.
This autumn I have quite good numbers of LBBG here in Austria, ridiculous for those who observe at Atlantic coasts of course
There are up to 14 individuals at the large gull´s roosting at the moment. Most of them are 1 cy, the majority are obviously Baltic gulls.

I will show 5 examples. First is dark mantled 3cy or 4 cy (?), it arrived very late yesterday, so excuse quality of this digiscoping. I have determined it as a Baltic, but is it allowed to have so many new primaries now?

Then 2 pictures of 1cy are following, I have identified them as Baltics too. Confirmation possible?

The next one can be an intermedius type...

And the last one seems to be definetely an intermedius type bird.
No ringed one so far.

I hope for confirmation or otherwise correction!
Wolfgang

[Theo Muusse]

The picture Hering is for me the way fuscus looks in 1cy at this time.
The last 1cy is the intermedius look to me. But all 1cy are not ID-able to subspecies a 100%.
The subad/ ad seems to show fresh and growing primes mid-wing, resulting in pretty sure intermedius to me.

Theo

[WolfgangSchweighofer]

Hi Theo, thanks for your comment!
Concerning pic1 I have of course studied the fuscus section of GRO. I have found there some ringed adults at the end of October, which show fresh primaries until P5.
I don´t think that my bird is full adult, it has pale legs and bill. But it has not very much head streaking, it has blackish grey upperparts...
I still would vote for fuscus

Pictures 2 and 3 are showing very similar birds. The main difference is that one is taken as a digiscoping late evening, the other one is taken directly with 500mmm lens.
Number 4 remains unidentifyable and 5 seems to be clear.

Only 6 rings have been read so far in eastern Austria (5 by myself): 3 have been intermedius from northern Norway, 3 have been fuscus from westernmost Finland. That gives a hint what that birds on the pictures can be...

Regards
Wolfgang