I was challanged with the ID of the 2 gulls in the attached

[amir ben dov]

please give your opinion on each

thanks
Amir

[amir ben dov]

please advise re each of the 2

[lou bertalan]

hi amir,

i see no reason why both birds should not be armenicus. the one with the pale eye might have some michahellis genes or it is just a male type armenian gull with pale eyes. a primary pattern would have been nice to reassure this ID but only based on the combination of dark irides (in one of the birds), bright yellow legs and a lot of black in bill for an adult bird (also in the pale eyed one!) i guess it is justified to say they are both armenian gulls.

best,

lou

[amir ben dov]

Hi Lou

thanks
its getting complicated

i Identified the left bird as cachinnans: long bill, pale back, a moderate forehead,
for me it has no armenicus fitures

as for the right bird, i hesitated between michahellis and cachinnans, but i never saw
a 3 colored bill in micha, so...

more opinions are needed

Amir

[adriaens]

Both birds show massive amount of black on outer primaries: even the black on outer web of P7 reaches the primary coverts (at least in the left bird),
so Caspian Gull can quite safely be ruled out.
I agree with Lou that both look like Armenian Gulls.