Could be a Herring Gull

paseriformes · Post by **paseriformes** » Sun Dec 20, 2009 7:36 pm

Today in Madrid I sighted this two gulls I think that both can be HG. I appreciate any coment.
Happy Charismas
Delfín

lou bertalan · Post by **lou bertalan** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 11:57 am

bump.

Cristian Mihai · Post by **Cristian Mihai** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 12:15 pm

Why did you think these could be Herring Gulls?

paseriformes · Post by **paseriformes** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 6:02 pm

The 2cy is a YLG we sighted again several times, buy the 1cy could be a YLG or a HG.

lou bertalan · Post by **lou bertalan** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 6:34 pm

hi delfín,

superficially it looks like a herring gull - rel. plain brown and with speckled greater covert bar. on closer view i think these GC are renewed (2nd generation) ones as are many outer median coverts just above them, head and bill shape also looks better for YLG. at a point i was also a considering a retarded 2cy herring gull but now it definitely looks like a 1cy bird to me. i don't think it is one of the rare cases of herring gull with moulted coverts, - not that many and not all (visible) greater coverts. conclusion is michahellis, possibly one of the 'cantabricans' birds which resemble herring gull in some aspects?? just a speculation. a bit weird is that those 2nd generation GC (if they are such!) don't have the typical pattern of 2nd gen. GC but merely of 1st generation ones...

these are my two pence, maybe someone else shares a different opinion?

lou

Theo Muusse · Post by **Theo Muusse** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 6:57 pm

The 2cy is a YLG, okay.
The first winter, first picture, looks a Herring Gull to me, with the details seen, of course.
The scaps are not fully moulted to 2nd gen, on december 20th. Combined with the piano on the gc it may very well be a HG to me.
The bill looks good for YLG, but I can not fully judge it properly. The tail and wing in flight may help.
Is there another picture?

Theo Muusse

paseriformes · Post by **paseriformes** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 8:49 pm

This picture was taken the same day, I think that is the same bird.
Thank you all for your comments.
Delfín

JanJ · Post by **JanJ** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 10:02 pm

If I saw the gull in question on my local patch I would not call it anything else but Herring. However, one shall not be to confident about these! The problem in this case is location. Herring as far south as Spain (Madrid) is of course not a common thing but occasionally occur. As Theo mentioned, the bill is very similar to michahellis and could well sit on one, and that could be one of the two problems

While scrutinising hords of - lets say - juv/1st winter argentatus, in the field and in images and their bills, many are surprisingly similar in shape and size throughout to many michahellis, not saying that bill shape differences doe´s not exist and is entierly unimportant. A flight shot is even better!

Some comparisons:

http://www.mallorcaweb.net/gavines/prim ... vembre.htm

http://www.mallorcaweb.net/gavines/prim ... sembre.htm

http://www.mallorcaweb.net/gavines/atipiques.htm

Jan

www.gull-research.org

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