Dark Herring Gul?

[paseriformes]

Another picture, is out of focus, but we can see better the tail pattern.
Delfín

[JanJ]

How much significans would you put in for the pale unmarked axillaries (armpit) in contrast to the rather dark underwing coverts as a contributing feature for smithsonianus Peter?

Jan

[adriaens]

How much significans would you put in for the pale unmarked axillaries (armpit) in contrast to the rather dark underwing coverts as a contributing feature for smithsonianus Peter?

Jan

Hey Jan,
the contrast, in itself, is not really something to go by; see, e.g., this colour-ringed bird from the Netherlands for comparison.
The smoothness of the brown underwing-coverts (completely lacking any barring) is more typical of Am. Herring, but can occasionally be shown by dark argentatus too.

[paseriformes]

Other gull expert confirm that is a smithsonianus. 4 for Spain.
Delfín

[JanJ]

How much significans would you put in for the pale unmarked axillaries (armpit) in contrast to the rather dark underwing coverts as a contributing feature for smithsonianus Peter?

Jan

Hey Jan,
the contrast, in itself, is not really something to go by; see, e.g., this colour-ringed bird from the Netherlands for comparison.
The smoothness of the brown underwing-coverts (completely lacking any barring) is more typical of Am. Herring, but can occasionally be shown by dark argentatus too.

Yes Peter, I have noticed the so called smoothness and lack of barring in smithsonianus. These 2nd cycle illustrates the point I was thinking of:

http://picasaweb.google.com/MGH271/Amer ... 5053982658

http://picasaweb.google.com/MGH271/Amer ... 8098223266

Jan

[JanJ]

Now at RBIS.

http://www.rarebirdspain.net/arbsf060.htm#English

Jan

[Theo Muusse]

Being critical, this shawl and underparts are blocked and striped, not plain dark.
How do we judge this criteria?

Theo

[adriaens]

Hi Theo,

like I said on the wnm.nl forum, judging the colour and pattern of plumage parts can be a matter of personal interpretation...
For this Spanish bird, I would say that the underparts and lower hindneck (+ upper mantle) look entirely dusky. I agree they look mottled (what you call 'blocked'), but I would not consider them 'striped'. Coarse striping, as often seen on lower breast and lower hindneck of European HG, seems to be absent, except for the upper neck. Note that the underparts of 2nd-cycle smithsonianus often look more mottled than in 1st cycle. Still, the Spanish bird shows a distinct effect of pale head sticking out from a dark body and lower neck.
More photographs of this bird can be found at http://madrid-gull-team.blogspot.com/se ... thsonianus.

[JanJ]

Compare pattern on underparts and hindnec/upper mantle in these smithsonianus. Justa a small selection.

1st cycle:
http://www.pbase.com/gwwarbler/herg_1st

2nd cycle:
http://www.pbase.com/gwwarbler/herg_2nd

3rd cycle:
http://www.pbase.com/gwwarbler/herg_3rd

Jan

[Theo Muusse]

When looking at the 2nd cycle link of JanJ above (and dismiss the 3rd cycle birds there), I see the feared variability.
But also, I see a white outer web of R6 on the 4th bird, the unwanted pattern of the tail-feathers on the 5th and not so plain underparts on most.
There obviously are a lot of difficulties to beat before we are there.

Theo