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Yellow-legged or Caspian ?
Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2010 4:57 pm
by Cristian Mihai
Pic taken on October 29th, in Bucharest.
Re: Yellow-legged or Caspian ?
Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 9:53 am
by JanJ
Simply by looking at the bill size and shape of it and the large eye - Ylg Cristian.
Jan
Re: Yellow-legged or Caspian ?
Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 4:58 pm
by Cristian Mihai
Thank you, Jan.
Re: Yellow-legged or Caspian ?
Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 4:21 pm
by Ruud Altenburg
Bill colour and shape and vermiculations above tail bar IMO point to Caspian!
Re: Yellow-legged or Caspian ?
Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 7:42 pm
by JanJ
Ruud Altenburg wrote:Bill colour and shape and vermiculations above tail bar IMO point to Caspian!
Colour and shape of the bill together with vermiculations above the tail bar would imo not be all that problematic in a 2cy michahellis.
http://www.pbase.com/thomasluiten/image/106838578
Jan
Re: Yellow-legged or Caspian ?
Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 10:09 am
by Cristian Mihai
Re: Yellow-legged or Caspian ?
Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 12:57 pm
by lou bertalan
hi cristian,
the original bird is clearly a 2cy michahellis, by bill shape, tapering tail band and especially by lack of a pale tongue on base of p10 (all dark p10 underside is rel. rare in 2nd cycle (ponticus) caspian).
the second - as i wrote on BF got to be a 3cy cachi albeit one with very limited mirror developement (no p9 mirror, rel. small p10 mirror for a 3rd cycle cachi) because of the long ventral p10 tongue, in dimension approaching the maximum of an adult micha. one could argue that it is a retarded 4cy (4th cycle) micha due to large apical spots on p5-7 and no mark on p4 but i have found that in 3rd cycles this is a pretty variable character for both sp.
black in tail, dark iris and head striation rather point towards a 3rd cycle cachinnans in my eyes.
cheers,
lou
Re: Yellow-legged or Caspian ?
Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:13 pm
by Ies Meulmeester
lou bertalan wrote:
the second - as i wrote on BF got to be a 3cy cachi albeit one with very limited mirror developement (no p9 mirror, rel. small p10 mirror for a 3rd cycle cachi) because of the long ventral p10 tongue
Yes, but the p10 tongue that's the question! I think that this tongue is not visible, because the feather/p10 is bent downwards. By the
pointer you see the tongue of p9. Difficult one, I also think it's a 3cy cachinnans but from this only picture I wouldn't certain exclude a small female type michahellis...
Ies
Re: Yellow-legged or Caspian ?
Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:49 pm
by WolfgangSchweighofer
In difficult cases I use always bill proportions (lenghth : depth). These are strongly different in these 2 taxa.
Measured bill proportions (and also bill coloration) of this bird are leading me definitely to YLG!
Wolfgang
Re: Yellow-legged or Caspian ?
Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 4:56 pm
by lou bertalan
Ies Meulmeester wrote:lou bertalan wrote:
the second - as i wrote on BF got to be a 3cy cachi albeit one with very limited mirror developement (no p9 mirror, rel. small p10 mirror for a 3rd cycle cachi) because of the long ventral p10 tongue
Yes, but the p10 tongue that's the question! I think that this tongue is not visible, because the feather/p10 is bent downwards. By the
pointer you see the tongue of p9. Difficult one, I also think it's a 3cy cachinnans but from this only picture I wouldn't certain exclude a small female type michahellis...
Ies
true, ies, i haven't counted correctly. this indeed leaves the option open for a 3rd cycle michahellis!
as for the bill, wolfgang,
usually it works, micha bill being higher, shorter and blunter tipped but exceptions aren't rare at all...even the seemingly "swollen" distal part of the bill isn't an exclusion feature of caspian.