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Hi all!

this is my first post on this forum, but I've been reading (and learning a lot) since last year.
These 2Cy gulls were photographed on Varese Lake, northern Italy, last winter (from the same place in the same period I had 4 CG ringed in Poland, a HG from Finland and a LBBG from extreme northern tip of Norway).

They both show:
-quite unusual scapulars pattern
-pale and cachinnans-like GC coverts
-quite palish head and underparts
-very pale inner primaries for YLG
-pale bases to GC and MC
-not perfect tail for YLG (but still ok)
-pale base to P10

BIRD 1







BIRD 2







well, for all of these features they have a look not too much dissimilar from Caspian Gull.
I believe them to be YLG for the head-shape and general jizz, but of course they are not like those breeding here in Italy, maybe a more eastern origin could explain the features above...

Any opinion?

best wishes
Michele

Hi,

I would consider both birds to be 'good' Caspian Gulls, not michahellis.

agreed, quite classic individuals. note that the pale parts in GC and MC are rather the distal ones (outer parts), not the bases like you said. pale GC tips (or: distal parts) together with a plain or diffuse pattern are good cachinnans pointers. pale base to p10 (inner web) in 1st cycle birds are another good cach feature although i have found it in 1-2 (eastern) michahellis as well, but not as clear as in your birds. nice pics and welcome to GRF!

lou

Hi guys,

wow, that's a relief! It would have been very difficult to explain all of these features in a YLG!
My only problem with these birds is that I find very hard to put such an head shape and quite short-legged impression in my idea of Caspian Gulls, also because of the fact that Caspian is still considered a quite scarce bird in Italy, and usually we have to "self-accept" just typical birds.

Mmh...lot of stuff to think about

Michele