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Hi Guys,

I'm in trouble with these gulls I took pictures of in a dump near Debrecen, Hungary last week. I would really appreciate if you gave me your opinion on these birds because the only answer I can come up with is the hybrid theory, especially in the case of the two second-winter birds.

Thanks in advance.

Cheers,

Gabor

File numbers belonging to the same bird: 6218-6318; 6493-6487; 6290-6285

I think that the first bird is rather a male (pure) Caspian, but I would like to see a better view of the wing tip...

the adult male looks good for a pale eyed caspian gull.
the 2nd cycle looks like a mixture of argentatus and cachinnans so maybe that's what it is.

lou

lou bertalan wrote:the adult male looks good for a pale eyed caspian gull.
the 2nd cycle looks like a mixture of argentatus and cachinnans so maybe that's what it is.

lou

Hi Lou,

Did you refer to both 2nd-winter birds?

Thanks for your opinion.

Regards,

Gabor

1st of the 2nd winters definitely looks like a hybrid - or even an odd herring gull. the pattern of coverts, striation and inner primaries is wrong for cachinnans.
2nd of the 2nd winters matches caspian gull better in plumage, albeit a slightly retarded one. palish getting iris, brown on underparts and irregular tertial pattern in the 2nd gen. ones may well suggest tatus genes. both might come from somewhere between poland, belorusia or even russia...

Cristian Mihai wrote:I think that the first bird is rather a male (pure) Caspian, but I would like to see a better view of the wing tip...

Hi Cristian,

Here you go! As you requested!

Cheers,

Gabor

it even has a "thayeri"-connection on p9. by the way, quite many caspian gulls do have pale irides.

lou bertalan wrote:it even has a "thayeri"-connection on p9. by the way, quite many caspian gulls do have pale irides.

I am not really familiar with the "thayeri"-like pattern in CGs. How frequent is it?
Does it mean that it is a CG or the opposite?

I am aware that pale eyes occur among them, but this time I was purposely looking for the extreme ones.

Thanks,

Gabor

hieraaetus wrote:

lou bertalan wrote:it even has a "thayeri"-connection on p9. by the way, quite many caspian gulls do have pale irides.

I am not really familiar with the "thayeri"-like pattern in CGs. How frequent is it?
Does it mean that it is a CG or the opposite?

I am aware that pale eyes occur among them, but this time I was purposely looking for the extreme ones.

Thanks,

Gabor

see examples of cachinnans with "thayeri pattern" e.g. here, in birds 27-32: http://chrisgibbins-gullsbirds.blogspot ... ation.html

lou bertalan wrote:

hieraaetus wrote:

lou bertalan wrote:it even has a "thayeri"-connection on p9. by the way, quite many caspian gulls do have pale irides.

I am not really familiar with the "thayeri"-like pattern in CGs. How frequent is it?
Does it mean that it is a CG or the opposite?

I am aware that pale eyes occur among them, but this time I was purposely looking for the extreme ones.

Thanks,

Gabor

see examples of cachinnans with "thayeri pattern" e.g. here, in birds 27-32: http://chrisgibbins-gullsbirds.blogspot ... ation.html

Hey Lou,

Thanks a lot!

Cheers,

Gabor