ad cach from Romania, May 2009

[Theo Muusse]

I am sorry to say, but there is the slightest of dark marking on the p5.
So still 0 for Jan.
Note the bill-shape and hint of red on the upper mandible.
Theo

[lou bertalan]

I am sorry to say, but there is the slightest of dark marking on the p5.
So still 0 for Jan.
Note the bill-shape and hint of red on the upper mandible.
Theo

that's merely a "ghost" of a hint of a dark mark ... and still most probably a pure caspian for me with that pattern in outer primaries. very interesting bird. hints of red on upper mandible is not unseen of in caspian.

[JanJ]

I´m afraid Theo I have lost, so to speak, provided that the gull is in fact a true cachinnans in the sence where our knowledge stands at the present
It might be that some individuals lack a p5 mark altogether - they certainly can have a thin mark, as can be seen in some of the images here, in a similar way to certain argentatus.

check bird nr 5 here and note the p5 pattern and the billshape:

http://gneubauer.republika.pl/mix_colonies.html

and Lars krogh's near adult here:

http://www.fugleognatur.dk/gallery.asp? ... e&ID=50293

JanJ

[lou bertalan]

another cachi with weak and broken p5 mark: http://www.artportalen.se/artportalen/g ... 179065.jpg

[Theo Muusse]

Is that p10 considered okay for cach?
This p5 and p10 in Sweden asks for a third and fourth look!

Theo

[lou bertalan]

p10 is absolutely ok, isn't it? as is the rest of the bird: http://www.artportalen.se/artportalen/g ... 179064.jpg
just the weak p5 mark is unusual.

[WolfgangSchweighofer]

Hello,

here are 2 examples from my site in central Austria:

First one is an adult bird with partially read Ukraine ring (probably Dnjepr?)
Pale iris and completely lacking any black on P5 (3rd Jan. 2008).



Another bird from Ukraine with Polish c-ring 006P. Metalringed as pullus at the Asow Sea, later it had been found breeding in southern Poland. Jacek Betleja called it therefore the "most famous Caspian Gull of Poland", also mentioned in British Birds.

It has solid black bands on P5 and P10, yellowish feet and intense yellow bill, further on a pale iris (not to see here but on Marco Basso´s website). 12th Jan. 2007.



Very contrasting individuals for me, both from Ukraine...

Regards
Wolfgang

[lou bertalan]

just a spot on outer web of p5: viewtopic.php?f=24&t=264
it would be good to do some statistics on this feature....

[lou bertalan]

one more with an even smaller spot on right p5 while left p5 mark is complete but thin:

download/file.php?id=1186

download/file.php?id=1187

download/file.php?id=1188

download/file.php?id=1189

(from this thread: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=291)

cheers,

lou

[lou bertalan]

hi all,

i thought i'd post this here since the theme on this thread in the latest posts was about lacking or imcomplete p5 subterminal marks in ad caspian gull.

cristian has photographed one more bird, one in 2-3 adults present at dambovita river at the outskirts of bucharest. this one shows a very solid mark, with a square part and an extention on outer web and a triangular part on inner, have a look: http://www.birdforum.net/showpost.php?p ... count=1445
this bird has a ver ypale iris also. one can only speculate about some argentatus blood in it, maybe from white russian or russian mixed/intergrades colonies.
moult score: left wing p3-p10 old, p1 growing; right wing: p2-p10 old, p1 growing.

lou