www.gull-research.org

Hey there thake a look at these norwegian Herrings at http://ostfoldmaker.blogspot.com/ all of them probably tatus or?

Nils

Hallo Nils,

the last two surely are interesting

Cheers

Ruud

Hello everybody,

I have some questions in that case because I´m a little interested after my Austrian smithsonianus-claim in last winter (25-01-2009).

Are observations of those dark birds (real smith´s or only lookalikes) concentrated in the NW of Europe (e.g. Ireland, northern Britain, southern Norway,...) or are there also any records from the Baltic region, where the Austrian birds normally come from (as my ringreadings in the last years showed).

Second question: Is there any real chance to identify a smithsonianus without an American ring??

Unfortunately my pic´s from the Austrian bird are again quite bad (same reasons: distance, bad light condiditions, had forgotten my digiscoping )
But I think it matches smitsonianus very well with it´s dark appearance (coverts, belly, undertail, plain dark underparts) and greyish head. It was seen 10 days before near Vienna (80km from my site), the observer told me, that tail and rump had been quite good for smith...



Wolfgang

Hello Wolfgang.

While this image (http://www.club300.at/node/15041) might be an improvment compared to the one here of the same gull, it´s still a challenge, or should I say, impossible, to identify it as smithsonianus from that one image. However, that goes for a majotity of claimed juv/1st winter (not to mention other ages as well), smithsonianus in Europe. 'Lookalikes' is an expression often used, well illustrating the issue. That doesn´t mean that all goes unidentified.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=19

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=21

Some Florida gulls here:

http://www.zbirdtours.com/dbs_herg.htm

and some suggstions here:

http://www.virtualbirder.com/bmail/idfr ... st.html#19

http://www.virtualbirder.com/bmail/idfr ... st.html#16

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php ... rring+gull

And finely here to scrutinize:

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=134

http://picasaweb.google.com/MGH271/Amer ... thsonianus#

Jan

In addition to the above, check this one:

http://larusology.blogspot.com/

Also on ID-FRONTIERS at the moment.

Jan

http://www.netfugl.dk/pictures/birds_us ... aK_191.jpg

http://www.netfugl.dk/pictures/birds_us ... aK_195.jpg

this one looks good for one, right?

JanJ wrote:In addition to the above, check this one:

http://larusology.blogspot.com/

Also on ID-FRONTIERS at the moment.

Jan

So, on the other side of the pool there is the same problem.
This bird certainly looks different from a smith.
What I find noteworthy is that the tail is very dark for such a pale-marked bird. You would expect a paler tail...
Thus, I think that a very pale or very poorly marked smith may show such a tail?

Theo

The complexity of smithsonianus, vegae and argentatus/argenteus is the real challenge! Certain individuals simply can´t be identified. For one moment you think you got it - just look for the uniformly dark lower hindneck/upper mantle, underparts and strongly barred upper and undertail coverts juv/first winters, which to a certain degree repeats itself in 2cy. If everything was that easy.
I think that Kirk's gull might well be smithsonianus with a tail pattern like that, even with an argentatus/argenteus lookalike scapular pattern like that. Note that the rather uniformly lower hindneck/upper mantle and underparts just looks paler because it´s a pale individual, I guess.
However, the pattern on the upper and undertail and underwing coverts is perhaps not the most wanted. I find Alvaro's vegae thought interesting, how impossible they might seem anyway
Some more, just for the fun of it

http://www.peregrineprints.com/Gulls/HEGU.htm

http://www23.tok2.com/home/jgull/071222/vegagull.htm

http://www.martinreid.com/Gull%20website/hsmitp82.html

At the bottom:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=82

Jan

Jan, thanks for your comment!

Of course I did not expect that somebody would confirm my bird from that picture (and some other similar) as a smithsonianus
But it looks not bad for this taxon and I believe it was at least the 1st "lookalike" seen in Austria. Even European HG is a scarce species in our country and therefore this dark individual was really exciting!
If I suppose that it did not come from the Baltic region, but from the Atlantic, it would be a sensation too. As I have said, we have no ringreadings from this direction, neither HG nor LBBG.

Wolfgang

Another interesting claimed European Herring here:

http://www.htc.net/~kdan/report.htm

Also diskussed here with other images:

http://www.ilbirds.com/index.php?topic=30691.0