November 23rd

[Cristian Mihai]

I visited Dambovita river at the eastern border of the city.
A 1cy michahellis (three pics):
http://www.birdforum.net/attachment.php ... 1290589982
http://www.birdforum.net/attachment.php ... 1290589997
http://www.birdforum.net/attachment.php ... 1290519391

A 2cy cachinnans/michahellis with only one foot:
http://www.birdforum.net/attachment.php ... 1290519357

Four birds:
http://www.birdforum.net/attachment.php ... 1290519370
http://www.birdforum.net/attachment.php ... 1290520279
http://www.birdforum.net/attachment.php ... 1290527570
http://www.birdforum.net/attachment.php ... 1290528012

[adriaens]

I visited Dambovita river at the eastern border of the city.

A 2cy michahellis with only one foot:
http://www.birdforum.net/attachment.php ... 1290519357

Hi Cristian,
surely this is a cachinnans ? Note, e.g., distinct mirror on P10.

[Cristian Mihai]

Hi adriaens,

In my humble opinion,the one from your quote looks pretty good for a michahellis. But what do you think about this one:
http://www.birdforum.net/attachment.php ... 1290519370
Here we have a relative large white mirror on P10. Also note the white base of the tail.

[lou bertalan]

Hi adriaens,

In my humble opinion,the one from your quote looks pretty good for a michahellis. But what do you think about this one:
http://www.birdforum.net/attachment.php ... 1290519370
Here we have a relative large white mirror on P10. Also note the white base of the tail.

hi cristian,

both birds: http://www.birdforum.net/attachment.php ... 1290519357 and http://www.birdforum.net/attachment.php ... 1290519370 are 2cy cachinnans (it was these 2 that i reffered to on BF 'gulls' when saying that i love 2cy cachs). some 2cy cachs lack a p10 mirror as you know and in some the mirror appears like a "ghost" like in the one you thought was a micha.

http://www.birdforum.net/attachment.php ... 1290520279 = 3rd cycle (3cy) micha
http://www.birdforum.net/attachment.php ... 1290527570 = ad micha with large mirrors (note especially all white p10 tip, lack of any subterminal mark)
http://www.birdforum.net/attachment.php ... 1290528012 = ad cachi


best wishes,

lou

[Cristian Mihai]

Thanx for comments, Lou. I also have some (not so good quality!) pics with another adult cachinanns.

[adriaens]

Hi adriaens,

In my humble opinion,the one from your quote looks pretty good for a michahellis. But what do you think about this one:
http://www.birdforum.net/attachment.php ... 1290519370
Here we have a relative large white mirror on P10. Also note the white base of the tail.

hi cristian,

both birds: http://www.birdforum.net/attachment.php ... 1290519357 and http://www.birdforum.net/attachment.php ... 1290519370 are 2cy cachinnans (it was these 2 that i reffered to on BF 'gulls' when saying that i love 2cy cachs). some 2cy cachs lack a p10 mirror as you know and in some the mirror appears like a "ghost" like in the one you thought was a micha.

http://www.birdforum.net/attachment.php ... 1290520279 = 3rd cycle (3cy) micha
http://www.birdforum.net/attachment.php ... 1290527570 = ad micha with large mirrors (note especially all white p10 tip, lack of any subterminal mark)
http://www.birdforum.net/attachment.php ... 1290528012 = ad cachi


best wishes,

lou

Indeed Lou, although I am not entirely sure of this "ad micha with large mirrors":



The less than vivid colour of the bill, with rather pale and restricted gonys spot, as well as the slight brownish mottling on the neck and lack of dark streaking around the eye, all make me doubt if this is not more likely a Herring Gull. Eastern birds can certainly show a primary pattern like that (sometimes combined with yellow legs).

[lou bertalan]

hi peter,

i don't exactly know to which extent we can call russian birds herring gulls (considering some of gregs pics from ivanovo oblast - e.g. this one http://www.flickr.com/photos/neubauerg/ ... 508214870/) but just on terms of likelyness i'd find it easier to find such a YLG in bucharest than an adult argentatus with yellow legs, very little basic plum. head streaking and black reaching down to p4! orbital seems to be red too (i know eastern HG can have red orbitals and little head striation, some finnish HG cause headaches). bill seems not too pale for a basic micha and many adult basic YLG have a black bill mark like this one. admittedly it's hard to exclude such an argentatus but i still have no pic of any clear HG from romania... and who says it doesn't have some cach genes?
i'd be interested in its underwing...

lou

[Cristian Mihai]

Lou, I'm not sure that this one is the same bird, but...
http://www.birdforum.net/attachment.php ... 1290764268
http://www.birdforum.net/attachment.php ... 1290764280

[lou bertalan]

Lou, I'm not sure that this one is the same bird, but...
http://www.birdforum.net/attachment.php ... 1290764268
http://www.birdforum.net/attachment.php ... 1290764280

yes, it absolutely looks like the discussed bird. and turned into a caspian gull
i think shape of bill, rel. strong yellow legs together with totally hidden upperwing grey tongues made me instantly feel it's a micha
shows how important it is to have a set of pics of one bird in different positions and angles. though one still could make a case for a presumed hybrid origin (F2 maybe) with micha genes - exactly because of the discussed features (bare parts colour, bill shape, iris, some pencil streaks around eye, not so long white underwing p10 tongue).
thanks for searching in your pics and posting them!

edit: actually i have some pics from you with birds which i think are michas but they have similarly long (about half visible p10 or slightly longer) and rectangular tongues. like e.g. this:

lou

[Theo Muusse]

Hi adriaens,

In my humble opinion,the one from your quote looks pretty good for a michahellis. But what do you think about this one:
http://www.birdforum.net/attachment.php ... 1290519370
Here we have a relative large white mirror on P10. Also note the white base of the tail.

With such a bill, inner primaries and dark scaps, it must be a michahellis.
Its not the first one I sse with a mirror.

The other 2cy is a cach.

Theo