2cy Ylg and Hg Id

[Rui_Caratão]

For a long time that I struggle myself trying to correctly id 2 cy pale mantle gulls in Portuguese coast during autumn and winter. But ylg from mediteranean, local ylg, galician and cantabrican are also present and not allways carrying darvics to easy the task.
Squarish heads, presence of renewed grey median coverts, darker mantle and tertials, allways lead to ylg....

Do 2cy Ylg have in any occasion paler mantle feathers than adults? I would say this bird is an Hg....if it wasnt a longish rear end!
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g279/ ... 000192.jpg
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g279/ ... 000189.jpg

And this one Ylg, dispite the pale barred tertials...right?
http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/2922/l ... as0311.jpg
http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/4067 ... as1peq.jpg



regards,

Rui Caratão