Help with Id /some eastern features!

[Rui_Caratão]

On the 10 th of November this 3 cy like Ylg was present near Belem, Lisbon-Portugal.

Shouldnt Ylg have the outermost primarys allmost moulted by this time, even the western populations???? very abraded upper-parts...bill resembling caspian, long and paralel edged, but with pale eyes,protruding breast and absence of tertial step, mostly white head with finer streaks around the eye and hindneck .




on the spot, it seemed tad bit lighter grey than Ylg, although on some photos it appears darker




legs, greyish tinged, and pink feet..... yellowish tinge on photos are exacerbated on photos, but probably present....I think!!!! due to cromatic aberration of my scope.




your opinion would be most appreciated.

regards,

Rui

[Rui_Caratão]

2 more photos!!




no flightshots, unfortunetly...... digiscoping birds its to limiting!!!!!!!!

regards,

Rui

[Ruud Altenburg]

I don't see much unusual for a YLG? You won't see a head shape like that on a Caspian Gull.

[Rui_Caratão]

You won't see a head shape like that on a Caspian Gull.

Exactly Ruud, headshape like Ylg, the forehead and crown have an obvious angle, the crown its to flat, legs not so thin, the eye is to big for CG......
But what about the unfinished moult of primaries, and parallel long bill...... probably a very stupid assumption, but how do we exclude the late moulters eastern taxa from a gull like this one?????

Rui

[Ruud Altenburg]

What do you mean with eastern taxa? There's a north-south relation in moult timing, not east-west.

Later than usual moult can be caused by illness, or maybe a deformed bill...

[Rui_Caratão]

What do you mean with eastern taxa? There's a north-south relation in moult timing, not east-west.

Sorry Ruud, my fault.... I was refering to asian taxa, like: barabensis, mongolicus.... thats what came to my mind regarding this gull, and to my novice guller eyes

thank you for your comments,

Rui

[JanJ]

What do you mean with eastern taxa? There's a north-south relation in moult timing, not east-west.

Sorry Ruud, my fault.... I was refering to asian taxa, like: barabensis, mongolicus.... thats what came to my mind regarding this gull, and to my novice guller eyes

thank you for your comments,

Rui

Be cool Rui, we are all more or less knowledgeable in the whereabouts of various LWHG, but Ruud is of course correct with a north south moult timing and various reasons for the late, in this example, moult

Ragarding headshape, which varies according to several surcomstances - as you would know. Caspian Gull is not usually associated with such a headshape as in your bird , but there´s no rule without an exception, this Caspian comes quite close but with a smaller looking head

http://waarneming.nl/foto/view/1689062

I´m not sure of what your gull is, maybe a YLG or something else but structurally (if not affected by illness) it could be a YLG.

Cheers

JanJ

[Rui_Caratão]

Hello JanJ

I am aware of North-South timing moult, and that CG are early moulters than Ylg....so when I used the term "" eastern Taxa", I was not refering to Caspian at all, neither sugesting a West- East timing of moult, just sugesting the similar wing pattern found on the wintering grounds of some Asian LWHG ... but I am clearly on the less knowledgeable side of the whereabouts of various LWHG

Ragarding headshape, which varies according to several surcomstances - as you would know. Caspian Gull is not usually associated with such a headshape as in your bird , but there´s no rule without an exception, this Caspian comes quite close but with a smaller looking head

http://waarneming.nl/foto/view/1689062

I have come across some CG on the web with such headshapes, but I thought that they were somehow an unusual freezed photo moment of a normal headshape Caspian, in my photos more or less the squarish head is allways present, like in Ylg.
http://www.pbase.com/slisch/image/82149501
http://www.pbase.com/slisch/image/119055734

I´m not sure of what your gull is, maybe a YLG or something else but structurally (if not affected by illness) it could be a YLG.

thank you JanJ and Ruud

regards,

Rui