4 birds: pure Caspians or...?!

[marsmuusse]

One of the potential problems is that we may have a bias in W Europe (or in Europe in general?) looking at cachinnans. But of course this is a very old taxon (one of the two source populations in Europe) and subsequently will show a large variation in its phenotypics. Here a link to what many (including myself probably) would label Yellow-legged Gull michahellis, if not ringed as pullus. It's the most famous cachinnans of Poland (in Jacek's words)...
http://gull-research.org/cachinnans/5cy/006p.html
Larus cachinnans adult green 006P January 12 2007 & January 06 2008, Woerth, Niederoesterreich, Austria. Picture: Wolfgang Schweighofer.

[Emmanuel]

sorry to answer again on the same topic.

Quite the opposite, Lou, it's highly appreciated!

2 looks a bit like YLG indeed with its crisp pattern but you can't exclude a 2cy cachi with a bit bolder markings.

In western France, the concern doesn't really lie in excluding a possible cachinnans when one watches a michahellis, but the reverse!

note for instance the strong bump behind legs in the 2nd pic - uncommon in YLG.

Not so strong for me...

4. - don't share your concerns about the 'globular head' and short bill - everything abs. within variation of good casp. gull.

Very OK with you after all.

Any other opinions?
Everybody's OK with 3. & 4. '1st cycle cachi', 2. & 5. possible YLG or 'strange birds', and 1. too blurry to tell?

Thanks & regards,
Emmanuel

[Emmanuel]

what many (including myself probably) would label Yellow-legged Gull michahellis, if not ringed as pullus. It's the most famous cachinnans of Poland

Everybody here would have just seen a YLG in this bird (standing or flying) and not reacted at all (I assume) as before a CG.
And without such a ring, it would never have been approved as a CG...

Few authentic Dutch people may really look like good Greek people... even if very few indeed.
(and may even become famous! ;o)

[Emmanuel]

Hi, a new bird from last Sunday in Calvados, Normandy.
A specially typical one for me (Gibbins's score = 17, indeed!?).
Upper parts' moult very similar to http://gull-research.org/cachinnans/1cy/dn09082.html - 1 GC + 1 MC!
However, this new Tony's bird has whiter head and longer legs: good boy!

Eventually, are all previous birds good caspians to your eyes, except 2 possible/probable cachinnans x argentatus hybrids (if not YLG)?

Regards,
Emmanuel

[lou bertalan]

hi emmanuel,

the new guy looks perfect. but as for 006P i'm quite sure it is not a pure cachinnans (no deep tongues in outer primaries...) but probably a micha x cachi. some YLG are always around in black sea and they breed on crimea which is not too far from azov sea...! http://gull-research.org/cachinnans/5cy/006p.html

[Emmanuel]

the new guy looks perfect.

Thanks again Lou!

but as for 006P i'm quite sure it is not a pure cachinnans

A DNA testing would have been very relevant or instructive for this bird... (nearly 15 years old now: still alive ?!)

Bonsoir !

[Emmanuel]

Hi, below is another probably good Caspian from Normandy (5/09, ringed in Reddern/D, 7/06/2013).
The observer only asks for some comments before he sends his report to the regional Committee...

I add a new "brochette" from yesterday in Dives-sur-Mer, Calvados (cheers again to Tony Le Hu Nghia).
Two 2cy (one well-known yet) + one 1cy. Traffic is getting bigger.

Have a good WE,
Emmanuel

[Emmanuel]

Hi friends, any comment about the 1st bird above (05/09/14) ?

[lou bertalan]

well, it can well go as pure 2cy cachinnans but, stemming from reddern - hard to know for sure if there is some HG involvement or not.

[Emmanuel]

Thanks again Lou,
But as Ronald explained, Gräbendorfer See (Reddern) is the most recent and supposed pure. The mixed colony is Sedlitz.

However, the following bird (Ouistreham 16/11/2014) could stem from this second dubious place...
At first sight, it looks like a YLG (common at this date). But the bill doesn't do it, the backwardness in moult either.
Short wings, streaks on head and chest, unmoulted scaps and mantle, lack of ventral bulge, some pattern on external GC, could evoke argentatus blood.
The rest reminding of cachinnans: bill, long tibias, tertials, combed look of coverts, shape in front...
On Gibbins's famous table, the score reaches 25 or 26... which tends to confirm a CGxHG hybrid, while saying nothing in relation to YLG, alas!
What do you think, larophiles?

Regards,
Emmanuel