Non-Caspians at Caspian Sea?

[Ruud Altenburg]

What are these gulls photographed in Kazakhstan? Does Eastern cachinnans get this dark or is barabensis a more likely option?
http://www.birds.kz/Larus%20cachinnans/ ... html?1&210

Cheers

Ruud

[marsmuusse]

In summer, this is still the breeding range for cachinnans. The picture caption reads Larus cachinnans cachinnans, but there is some debate if this population is really much different from 'ponticus'. The division between the two must be somewhere along this coast. I'll try to find / try to remember what I've read about it, and when I find it, will add it here (or someone else may do it of course).
Of course, in winter, the choise of possible taxa is much broader.

[lou bertalan]

these ones definitely look different to 'ponticus'. i wouldn't put too much weight on the mantle shade since there's no comparison with other taxa but the short and deep yellow legs in connection with upright stance reminds me most of barabensis (breeding in the north of kazakhstan). the front gull seems to have much black in wingtip, but also an all white p10 tip!

lou

[JanJ]

Ruud,

That´s the question I asked myself when I first saw it. I did not get any wiser. Rather similar bill pattern in three of these and the head pattern on one of them are quite interesting!
The first one reminds me of barabensis on structure, leg-lengt, darkness on upperparts and intensive yellow legs. It coresponds well with the appearance of barabensis. However, as always - being on the safe side of the fence due to lack of knowledge regarding the eastern candidates is the sound thing to be.
The subject 'eastern cachinnans' is a hard to get your hand on' type of thing, what is really eastern cachinnans? By the way, aren´t barabensis supposed to be further south by this time of year.

Jan

[Ronald Klein]

I saw (and have) some photos, taken bei Kai Gauger in Azerbaidschan.

1) Breeding gulls seem to be clearly cachinnans.

2) In winter some armenicus occur.

Before this, I was not sure about it, because michahellis also occurs at Southern Black Sea coast, probably also in Georgia on roof-tops in harbour areas.
If Kai will allow it, I could post images.

[Ruud Altenburg]

In winter I suppose we can choose from cachinnans, barabensis and heuglini/taimyrensis? Yes Mars, please post a follow-up.

BTW, the series of 25-04-08 seems to show a michahellis? http://www.birds.kz/Larus%20cachinnans/